Putting Yourself Out There! with Alex Oh
“The one thing about freelancers, because you do everything yourself, means you are marketing yourself. If you're stuck in a project, most of the time your brain just focuses on what you're doing, and you forget about your networking, your marketing. So, in a sense, freelancers, as good as it sounds, you have your flexible hours, you'd be surprised to know that you actually sleep very little. In fact, you do a lot of work, sometimes more than people who are working in offices or have regular jobs.”
Alex Oh, a film composer, producer, and pianist, with more than a decade of experience, is one of Singapore's most prolific and versatile film composer. His latest project is A Simple Wedding, a romantic comedy about a bride having cold feet at her wedding. In this episode, we speak to Alex about his freelancing career, from starting out in Shanghai to establishing himself as a pioneer in the Singapore film industry and how he recently pursued further studies to further his craft. We discussed why it is important to set aside time and budget for music score in a film and the challenges of balancing our love of craft versus making a living.
Jayce: Hi everyone. Thanks for coming back. This is Jayce and…
Y: I’m Yen Lyng.
Jayce: Welcome to Freelance Exchange where every week we speak to freelancers about freelancing and the gig economy. Today we have Alex with us.
Alex is actually one of the few trend film music companies in Singapore. I would say most, by the look of them, were done through him or he’s involved in some way. He composed for international films like The Maid as well as The Bait. So probably you’re familiar with them as well. So, Hi Alex.
Y: Hi Alex.
Alex: Hello. Hi everyone.
Jayce: Thanks for joining us today. Maybe you’d like to quickly introduce yourself to our audience here?
Alex: Yes. I’m Alex. I’m a film composer, a music producer and a pianist. So far, I've done, I've scored 19 feature films. I'm currently doing three at the moment, so hopefully that will go well by the end of this year. So yeah, that's what I am.
Jayce: Great, thank you. So just now you mentioned; you're working on three local films currently. So roughly, when will we be able to see the films out in the theatre?
Alex: I think the first one, you will see A Simple Wedding, it will be shown I think it's the July period, so we are all rushing for the deadline at the moment.
Y: Just out of curiosity, how long does it actually take to score a film? Like do they get you in right at preproduction or is it after the film has been shot?
Alex: It depends on the project. It depends on, of course, the director or producer you know? I would prefer to be in as early as possible, and we all know sometimes a film may take some years to produce. But it is always good to get a composer in in the very beginning, because I will have certain ideas, with talking to the director or producer, and of course certain things may change along the whole production process.
Once I have a certain sense of the story and when the time comes for post-production or the scoring, I will have a more mature, perhaps story plot or the actual story, in my head, and so that is very important for me. If not, most of the time unfortunately, I come in at a point where by film makers or producers come to the post-production stage and then they think, “Who should we get to score?”
Y: “We have no music.”
Alex: Yes, and the difference is this; because the producers and film makers have been working for maybe half a year, one year or two years or more, they have a very strong sense of the story. But for people like us, who come in, almost at the end of the process, we struggle to firstly find what's going on. It's like suddenly I'm parachuting down on a war zone, everyone is doing their own thing, so what am I supposed to do? So, I'm trying to find my bearing, and of course this will eat into the scoring time.
So, to answer your question, preferably I prefer six to eight weeks to score, because the first two weeks is actually trying to understand.
Y: So, it's not only just like a creative side of it, you have to understand the team as well.
Alex: Yes, and what's going on, because the music is actually telling a story and sometimes it can either go with what's on screen, or even more importantly, goes to say something which cannot be, perhaps, acted out or told by the dialogue.
Jayce: Just to follow up from [unclear 00:04:37] questions, so roughly as film makers, when we actually allocate our work production budget, say for a feature film, roughly, what is the percentage that we should allocate for this audio, post-production, to be safe? Is it like a percentage of the film that we have to allocate right at the beginning? Because I know a lot of film makers, like you mentioned, feel that, “Okay, I can deal with this,” but then by the time they come to do it properly, they will say, “Oh no, I have passed my budget,” and things like that. So, to be safe, in terms of allocations, so how much do you think would be considered as a good enough budget for decent audio works to be done on a feature film?
Alex: I would say, if we include, of course, the sound design as well as the entire audio process, then it would be safe to say that probably, of course, depending on whether it's a low budget, a no budget, or a medium or high budget film. So, I think the lowest minimum is perhaps somewhere 50,000 to 80,000 for the entire audio process, and this is really low.
Most films, even the low budget ones, will need some kind of ensemble or scoring, these kinds of things. If you want the production quality to be good of course. So then, of course, with that kind of thought, you will need probably 100,000 – 120,000, because you're paying for musicians, not just a composer or a sound designer or a sound engineer.
Y: Just the recording and everything.
Alex: Yes, just the recording, you're talking about a team of between 20 to 30 people. So, if you think about that size of people, and their budget is actually not a lot. Did I answer the question though?
Jayce: Yes, you did. So generally, you think it should be around at least 10% to 15% of your production budget for the whole audio?
Alex: For the whole audio, yeah. For the music, I would say that it's safe to say around, in a percentage, maybe 1% to 2% of the whole entire budget, but that's normally the composer fee.
So that's why generally, in Hollywood or even other places in Asia, I've talked to some Hong Kong producers before. Somebody asked, “What was the highest budget for music that you’ve worked with?” I said, “Around 150,000.” “Oh okay, that's not a lot.” I was like, “Oh really?”
Y: Maybe that's a different differentiating factor.
Alex: But because, if you are talking about engaging ensemble, so it is that kind of amount, everything adds on together.
Y: So, Alex, you've actually been doing this for like, let's say quite a few years now, but back then, what made you go into this line? Was this like your first choice of what you were going to do? You know, like when you're growing up, or even in school let's say, from that time, was it like, “I want to be a music composer or audio engineer,” or was that something that you grew into?
Alex: It was something I grew into. I started out wanting to become a music producer, that is to produce music for bands, for artists, for musicians, that kind of thing. I was inspired by somebody when I was a teenager, 14 or 15 years old. I saw this South African music producer, I said, “Wow long hair, so cool, can play piano, can produce albums.” Then, I went to the studio and them my eyes were like, “Oh man, I can live here, this is my home,” with all the analogue equipment. In the past it was the 24-inch thing, and the tape, and it sounds really, really good. Of course, at that point, I wanted to become a music producer and in 1999 I started music production, and of course in 2001, I decided, “Okay, let's do this.”
So, I had some partners at that point in time and we set our company and we wanted to do music production and maybe TV commercials, those 30 second jingles and all that kind of thing. So, it was just three very passionate people, but it didn't work out.
But in any case, during 2001, how I went into this was, in 2001, somebody approached me, a friend of one of my partners. He asked, “Can anybody arrange this opening sequence of the film?” So, it was One Leg Kicking, all the music was already done. I think Kevin Matthews was the one who did it, so I took his team, and they just wanted some arrangement, it was like two or three minutes of it in the very beginning. So, I arranged something. I let the music supervisor hear, to listen to it, and the music supervisor was Joe, which later on we collaborated on many projects, but they heard it, they liked it, and I never heard from them for a few years.
Then, I remember at that point in time, when Joe came to me, he was like… We’d only got this very little budget. Okay, I can tell you, it was only a few hundred dollars, seriously, but at that point in time it was like, “Okay I’ll just try this.”
So, I did them a favour, they liked it and then two years later, Joe came back, and then he said, “Can you compose music for a TV drama?” And just prior before this, I had a huge learning curve by doing a National Geographic documentary.
So, nobody told me anything, I have never done composing for screen, that was in 2003. If you know what technology was back then at that time, it was terrible, everything was slow, and I had huge problems. But that particular project, literally, I have all the learning curve, I learned a lot of things from making mistakes.
At that time, Joe came to me and I was like, “Yeah, I can do it.” I was quite confident, because I had already been through a nightmare. So, we did it and it was Kelvin Tong who was doing the TV series.
So, after that Kelvin decided he wants to make his second feature, he first feature was Eating Air, so he said, “Okay I want to do another feature called The Maid. It's a horror movie.”
So, most of the team members, it was our first time doing a TV series, and then we went on to The Maid, which was the first time for everyone as well.
So, we did our best, we really pushed, giving 300% of time, effort and everything, and I think it turned out well for The Maid, and subsequent wise.
So, that's how I got into it actually.
But I realised something when I was doing the National Geographic, why I wanted to do this, was while I was doing it, it was like suddenly I got some kind of satisfaction, you know? When the music sort of sinks and locks with the picture and it becomes one. It's very hard for me to describe that, it's like a satisfaction as well, it's a kick. To me it's like, “Oh man, this works,” and then I realised, “As much as I like to produce music albums, this is different, I can stay up all night to do this.” So that's why I'm doing it now.
Jayce: So never looked back ever since?
Alex: Never.
Jayce: But at that point in time where you were deciding to go into, how should I say, would you consider yourself as a freelancer back then, when you started this whole thing?
Alex: Yeah.
Jayce: So back then, what were some of the considerations that made you really put down everything and say, “Okay, this is my dream, this is what I want to pursue”?
Y: Yeah because it was a very different scene back then, right? I think even the term ‘freelancer’ at the time was not highly regarded, I mean now it's much better. There’s still a bit of hesitation for a lot of people, but I can imagine back then it was not the best time to be a freelancer.
Alex: Yeah, it probably wasn't really a choice at the time because I told you, it didn't work out, so I had to do it on my own. Unfortunately, creatives are not really good business people, and if we are, that is very good, but most of us honestly are not. We’d rather look at something nice.
Y: “I just want to do my craft.”
Alex: Yes, I just want to do my craft rather than look at numbers, but honestly, we can't separate the two. Especially if you are a freelancer, because you live by a project basis, you know you get paid by projects, which means, if you are not doing anything for six months, you are not getting anything for six months. However, your bills do not stop, you are still supposed to pay for things.
So, I think when I first started, at least for myself, I didn't really think about it, I mean young at the time.
Alex: Yeah, does do it, but after a while, reality does set in and especially now, with a family, a few mouths to feed and all of that kind of thing. So, it does force you to have at least something structured, or at least pushes you to try to get more.
The one thing about freelancers, because you do everything yourself, means you are marketing yourself. If you're stuck in a project, most of the time your brain just focuses on what you're doing, and you forget about your networking, your marketing. So, in a sense, freelancers, as good as it sounds, you have your flexible hours, you'd be surprised to know that you actually sleep very little. In fact, you do a lot of work, sometimes more than people who are working in offices or have regular jobs.
I mean everything, there's always a trade-off. So, if you are working for somebody, you have stability, you don't really need to worry about your monthly pay cheque, but the trade-off is, you may not have as much freedom, or creative freedom in a sense, and then satisfaction. You know, because you're working for somebody else. If you are a freelancer, then yes, you can have all your- creative satisfaction and freedom that you want, but the trad off is you've got to spend a whole lot more time pushing yourself and getting jobs.
Y: Yeah, that's right. So, what do you do, like you mentioned, when you are so deep into a project, but you know that maybe after this project finishes, you have to line up the next project right? So how do you step out of that, to say, “Oh I've got to go for this networking right now,” do you start making calls one month before the project ends and say, “Eh, anything up?”
Alex: Yes, all of the above, and you pray as well. No, but the point is that, I think everything… there's a saying, “Success has to be planned,” and it is true. You have to plan, you have to make an effort even when you're really busy, when you're kind of pulling your hair out, that kind of thing, but you have to still take the time, because everything is relationship based. You just have to make time to meet the people. Then, yes, of course, when there's work they will give it to you.
I don't think we can ever stop networking, because firstly our market size is really so small, so obviously we need to push even more, because of our size.
Y: You can't just wait over there and then hopefully something will come to you, nothing's going to come or anything.
Alex: Yeah, when you were saying that I was just thinking, you cannot be passive, you have to be active constantly. I was a very passive person in the past, so it was probably because when I went to China, I was there for four years, I was forced in the environment to be active, because nobody knows you, you are not getting any job, you are starting from scratch. So, you have to actively go out, call, your skin has got to be thick, they reject you 10,000 times but you still call them, “Hi, how are you?”
But you'd be surprised, when I was there, for the first year… Just to digress a little bit, I went there on holiday and I realised, “Wow there's so many TV channels over there,” and then there was a lightbulb in my head, you know, it brightened up and it was like, “Oh, if there's so many channels, there must be a lot of TV commercials.” So, I kind of linked the two.
Jayce: The business part of you came out.
Alex: Suddenly yeah, you’ve got it. At first, there was nothing for me to do, so I was flipping channels in front of the TV in a foreign land, how sad. But that's the truth.
Then, I called my friend over there, he's a Singaporean but working there in the advertising industry, so I asked, “How is the advertising in Shanghai?” He said, “If you want to do TV music, you must come here.” I said, “Really? Okay let me try.”
Y: So, you just said, “Let me try,” and you stayed there for four years?
Alex: The first year was more like a to-and-fro, but even that to-and-fro I had gotten a TV commercials job by knowing almost practically nobody
Jayce: But how do you manage to even secure this firstly? How do you manage to break into it?
Alex: It was, of course, through some friends that it opened up. I think, especially for what I'm doing, composition, a lot of people ask, “How did you get into this?” and the answer is, there are many, many variables that comes in, and luck is actually one of them.
Y: Being at the right place, at the right time.
Alex: Being at the right place, at the right time, and then people helping you, opening the door for you. So, I think that, even how I got into film, I didn't plan it, but deep down I didn't know I wanted to do it until I did it.
Jayce: Until you found it?
Alex: Yeah, until I found it.
Y: But I think at the same time, a lot of it, as much as it is being at the right place, at the right time, knowing the right people, I think you have to be open to it as well.
Alex: Yes
Y: Because I think a lot of creatives would be, well not a lot of creatives, just a lot of people in general, even if they are offered, like it’s standing right there in front of you, you don’t go ahead and ask or tell yourself, “Oh yeah, I can do that.” The person is not going to approach you and say, “Hey can you do this for me?”
Alex: Yes, correct.
Jayce: Yeah, I think that's especially true for Singaporeans, because we have always been quite reserved, so we kind of like [unclear 00:21:51] what they say, so we don't really dare to ask for it, but sometimes you just need to take the first step.
Alex: Yes.
Y: Yeah, like you said, the skin has to grow a bit thicker.
Jayce: Especially for freelancers.
Alex: Yes, exactly. Nobody’s going to market for you, nobody is going to give you the job, you have to ask for it.
Y: Yeah, there's no marketing department behind you.
Alex: Yes, none, zero
Jayce: So, when was this four years that you were in China?
Alex: 2007 to 2011.
Jayce: Okay, so what brought you back to Singapore?
Alex: It was actually for the movie Bait, and at the time, the lease where I was staying, it was about to finish, it was about to end, and then I got a call from Joe, “Hey there is this shark movie, do you want to do it?” I said, “Yeah, of course, why not? Shark, hm.” I mean in Singapore, films, come on. Have we ever done any monsters, or sharks?
Jayce: That’s true, yeah.
Alex: So, the movie, it said shark, and everyone thought, at least I mean for me, it was like, “Jaws.” Why not?
Jayce: At that point in time, have you done similar things before, or is this probably, potentially, a new showcase for you as well, right? A new challenge in that sense, this whole project?
Alex: Yeah, it's a new showcase. Previously I think most of the films were from Kelvin Tong, so Kelvin himself, he likes to do horror movies.
Jayce: And very successful.
Alex: So, I remember, even when he was doing a comedy, Men in White was a comedy, and –
Jayce: It's still horror.
Alex: There has to be a ghost in sight. It was quite funny when I was looking through, but that's him, that's his style, that is what he's good at. But nothing of the sort of like monsters and that kind of thing.
I think generally in Singapore, yes, we have The Arts House, kind of movies, and then we have somewhat of the commercial kind of movies, and even commercial movies, you only get comedies or horror. So, in the end there's nothing in between. Where's the thriller, where is suspense, where's the monsters, where's the fantasy? We don't have them.
So, when the opportunity came, of course, I jumped at it and then it was exciting because it was an MDA, now IMDA project, it was invested by [unclear 00:24:36], and we get to go to Sydney to record a 40-piece orchestra.
Jayce: So, this was a fairly large production budget feature film at that point in time for Singapore? I was just about to ask, so what's the experience that you have getting from Bait versus the other projects that you have done in Singapore?
Alex: Okay, like, at least in terms of local productions, what we call mock up or demo, basically using the computer music samples or sounds to… Actually, that purpose is to just show the director or the producer how the music will sound for the scene, but because our budget is relatively not that high, we end up using mock ups or demos.
Of course, sometimes I will get in one or two musicians to play, because now the sample libraries have grown to be quite good, but back in 2004, The Maid, it was not like that. I remember I was trying frantically to make the violin sound real, and then I spent hours, three or four hours on just a two minute or three minute, trying to make it sound real, and then the violinist came, less than five minutes and got it right. So, I was like, “This is a waste of time,” and, come on, one violinist is not expensive to get a person that can come and play.
Of course, over the years, even now, as much as the samples are better, but still when you have a live person playing, nothing…
Y: Nothing beats it.
Alex: Nothing beats it, and there's something special about a live player. You can have all kinds of theories, but I think it's the energy that comes out from them, because music is supposed to be performed. So, there's something special when someone is playing live versus your mock up samples. Then, it’s easy when you watch it with the visual, somehow you get connected to the visual. This is the special thing which I find, that not many producers or directors understand.
So, unless we are doing something like, you know the movie Tron? Tron Legacy, Daft Punk and all that kind of thing?
Jayce: Yeah.
Alex: So, unless we are doing that kind of science fiction movie…
Y: Yeah, that's a different type.
Alex: Yes, media samples, even they use an orchestra to perform as well. So, that's why I think it drives me to want to push for the recording of live musicians for films, because I think, if you have that kind of quality over any of your visuals, the whole production quality just goes up, and then even for the audience, when they watch it, they can easily connect to it. So, this is something which I'm very sure, and however we are still going to it.
Y: Anybody in the film industry please take notes. Please set aside your budget before you start.
Jayce: So, we know recently you went back to school, was it the experience of Bait brought you back to school?
Y: Yeah, you went overseas again recently.
Alex: Yeah, September 2016 to last year, November, about a year. I was doing my masters in film scoring in Dublin, Ireland. So yes, the experience of Bait, after that experience and actually more like when we were doing Bait, I had the full team at my disposal.
Okay, back to local projects, because somewhat of the budget constraint, so most of the time I do everything myself or maybe one assistant to help, but when I was doing Bait, me and Joe were doing Bait, we had music editors, we had orchestrators, we had copies, we had sound engineers, we had practically, like the whole team, and this is how Hollywood or other places does it, and you'd be surprised how efficient it is, because even for myself, I'm trained in music production, it means I can do the whole process from start to finish, but it would take me longer and I have to, like shift my focus. There’s no focus.
I compose half way, after that I've got to mix it, so that it would sound good enough for the director to hear it, and then after that, if I want to record some players, I have to write out the score myself, you know? Copy, this is the job of the copies So, all these things take time. If someone were to do it alone, it would take like two months or three months or even longer, but if you have a whole team of people, everything is fast.
That's something I know, even if you study film music history, around the golden age of Hollywood in the early 1920s-1930s, you'd be surprised how fast they did music scoring, it was done in a week, with recording from the orchestra. So, of course, you're talking about like 10 to 15 composers as well as orchestrators. So that's why they can do it, like the first day, they meet to talk about it, second, fourth, they compose and fifth, sixth, they record and then it's done, and somebody will mix.
Y: Yeah, that's right.
Alex: This cannot be done now.
Y: Those were the days.
Alex: Those were the days, but it's like less than 100 years ago.
Y: Yeah, I think a lot of things have changed since then.
Alex: Yeah, and back to that question sorry, I think I digressed.
Jayce: No problem.
Alex: I wanted to go and study because I have never studied film music composition, which means everything that I've done is based on my knowledge at that point in time. I did study, of course, classical music, piano, and all the theory and that kind of thing. So, it was able to sustain me of course for a while.
But like anything, you want to grow, and you want to be good at it, if you are serious. So, I went to master my craft, and in between the time, of course, from the May until last year, I kept reading books, I…
Y: Self-studied.
Alex: Self-studied, self-taught, YouTube and whatever I could find online. There wasn't really anybody that could help me in this because in Singapore you don't have many people doing this. So, there was nobody I could ask for advice and I am very sure that, for this kind of craft and all, if you want to learn it properly, you have to learn from somebody who has either mastered what they do, it’s a master and apprentice thing, or study. Again, we don't have film, music school or anything like this.
So seriously, and after a while, I get frustrated, because with every movie, of course, I try to do something different, try out some other things.
Y: Yeah, do better.
Alex: Hopefully the director doesn't fire me or anything for trying weird things, but thankfully none. But the point is, I wanted to grow, and I felt I’d reached a ceiling, and then the only way is to go for further studies, and I'm glad I did it.
Y: Really?
Alex: Yes, I think it was the best experience. I should have gone there sooner, but it was really amazing, it was an intense nine months that I don't ever want to go through again in my life.
Y: It was good
Jayce: For the time being.
Alex: Yes, for the time being, and I got what I wanted, which was to write for different sizes, ensembles, like, while we don't have much budget so how do we work around? How do we work something which sounds cinematic but yet, we only have that much?
I had a problem when I was doing 1965. We only had three string players and four choir members. So, if I had the knowledge I have now, I would change it a little bit differently, so to make it work better.
Jayce: Just now you mentioned, as a freelancer it's difficult to take time out for yourself as well, but then you were away studying for nine months, how do you actually handle your clients for example? Do you tell them, “I'm on nine month leave, so you cannot look for me”? How do you juggle this, in terms of running your freelance business, but yet still take time off to upgrade yourself?
Alex: Unfortunately, no. You don't stop, in fact you’re add in more. That's why I said, it's so intense, because while I was studying and there was so many assignments, I have to work as well.
Y: So, you're doing both at the same time?
Alex: I was doing two things at one time, it was very tiring. I envied my classmates, who at weekends they would go to some other cities, they would take pictures of themselves, see the beautiful landscape. I was stuck in that chair working, studying, I didn't really go anywhere.
Y: Was there any plan for you though? Because I think a lot of freelancers, or even just working professionals, let's not just talk about freelancers, that hesitance of going to upgrade themselves, most likely they do want to, but like you have a family actually and you just dropped everything and moved to a different country for nine months and then you had to work at the same time and study. Did you prepare for it or were you just like, “Let's go,” or what was the feeling to finally push you, what made you finally take that step to go overseas and study? Because you were thinking about it for a long time I think you said.
Alex: Yes, I was thinking about it for a long time. I tried in 2012, it didn't work.
Y: You tried to go and study?
Alex: No, I applied for a scholarship, but I didn't get the money and it didn't work, and then my wife got pregnant, so, of course, delayed again. Then, 2015, I had this thought, but I was still kind of undecided whether I wanted to do it or not, and then looking at my son growing up, slowly but steadily, that kind of thing, it's like, “Okay, so do I really want to do this?” You know? The dude is growing up, so now it's like getting even more difficult.
Y: Is it more like, “I'll be missing his life,” kind of thing?
Alex: Yes, exactly. I try to be an active parent, an active father. So, I decided I'm going to apply for a scholarship in 2016 and unfortunately, I didn't get that. Of course, I discussed with my wife, because it was not like in 2007, where I could just drop everything and move to Shanghai, I was single, so I could do whatever I want, and I was young. But now it was a different scenario.
So, out of respect and love and everything, we discussed and then she was fully supportive of what I wanted to do. If I want to study, fine. If I want to study and I want to go back to Shanghai or anything like that, fine. So, she was fully supportive.
Then I remember I had that 10 minutes of my own time and thoughts and everything, I remember the moment because I was a little bit saddened when I didn't receive the scholarship when the reply came. So, I had that moment to myself and I thought about it, so, “Will I regret this? That means I'm not going to think about it anymore once I pass this thing.” So, “Will I regret it, in my later years, that I didn't go and study?” and I knew that I would regret it. It came to that realisation, so I decided, “Okay, I'm going to study.” Like, “I'm going, but I don't know how I'm going to go, but I'm going to do it.” It's that kind of like, I say it, I put it in faith and I'm going to jump.
Y: “Let's just do it, because if not now, then there's no other time,” basically.
Alex: There's no other time, and my kid at that point in time was two years old. He was still a little bit like, you know, not fully understanding, and then I thought, “Okay, this is seriously the only moment. I can't wait another year. Yes, of course I can prepare my finances better next year, or I think so.” Sometimes you will never know. Again, unsure. So again, “Now is the time,” so I decided, “Okay, let's do this.”
Y: So, you just applied for it and just went.
Alex: Yes, there's some stories but I'm going to leave it there. So, the leap of faith I call it, and once I jumped, I was falling through the whole year.
Jayce: But now you're back again, back up again.
Alex: Yes, back up again, I survived.
Y: The most important thing is that you don't regret it?
Alex: No, I didn't.
Jayce: But would you think that this is something that is important for freelancers to take note of as well? Because you know freelancers, being on their own, so sometimes it's also important to take a step back to see, where their skill levels are, how they’re competing amongst their peers, and whether there's really a need for them to actually consider seriously about upgrading themselves.
Alex: I think it's an individual decision, at least for myself, at that point in time, “I know that I can go further, so why am I not doing that?” That was the question that I was asking myself, and I was frustrated that I hit a ceiling and I couldn’t go further any more.
Y: Particularly for your skill set.
Alex: Yes, and I totally believe that if you want to, in any craft, that you have to be a master, especially when you've been doing it for a long time and you want to be good or the best.
So, in fact, this question is more a question that you need to answer yourself, for yourself. Do you want to do this? If you know that you can go further, why don't you do it? And then of course, there are so many reasons, like for myself at the time, there was family commitment, of course financial situations and all that kind of thing. Yeah, and of course work, but I think I'm a good testimony that it can be done.
Y: I think you are, yes.
Alex: No, but I chose correctly in the sense that, “Okay, what is the most efficient and shortest time that I can find something to study?” That's why I chose this correctly.
Y: In terms of the cost that you chose, was it you made those considerations?
Alex: In terms of the cost, in terms of what I can learn and in that time period, and I'm glad I did it, because if I were to go this year, it would be different. My son is more demanding of me now than last year.
Y: Yeah, he can actually articulate his, “Daddy I want.”
Alex: Yes, “Where are you going?” That kind of thing, like last year there wasn't any of this, he was like, “Okay, bye-bye.”
Y: He was waiting for you.
Alex: Yes, that’s right, “Why are you not back home?” You know? Things like that, so it is difficult, especially of course at this point in time, so if anybody wants to do it, I would actually say as early as possible and not wait like until my situation. I'm just kind of lucky and it still works, and somehow, I was able to do it.
Jayce: So, having been through all these ups and downs, having been in the industry for so long, do you see a great improvement in the media industry from when you first started until now?
Y: Media and maybe the freelancing, you mentioned a bit about freelancing?
Alex: Okay, freelancing; obviously people are now more aware, of course we have, is it IMDA?
Jayce: Yeah, IMDA now.
Alex: With the system they want to put in place, is of course more beneficial and helps to protect the freelancers, because a lot of companies are not fully aware that freelancers need to be paid on time, things like this. Which is very crucial, because for anybody who wants to be good at what they do, we can't be worrying about finance all the time. I don't know about others, but for myself, if once I think about it, I'll be paralysed, there's like a thorn at the back of my head, you know, like demon, “You're supposed to pay this, where's the money?” Then you'll be fearful, you'll be pressured, you're stressed.
So, the thing is, how do you produce good work in that sense? So that's why, in the more corporate environment, let's say a studio or anything, you have somebody to take care of the finance, or a manager, and then you do what you're supposed to be good at, which is the music and don't worry about anything else, you see? So as freelancers we don't have that kind of luxury.
Y: Yeah, the HR department is necessary.
Alex: Yes, but now of course it's improved, people are more aware, and we are still, of course, ongoing in this thing. We have not reached there yet, of course, but preferably soon. So, nobody really needs to hound…
I've seen and, of course, heard from friends, even myself sometimes, we have to kind of hound people that, “30 days is up. We would appreciate if you can pay us.” We are not beggars, we don't like to beg, but the thing is that sometimes companies sort of take advantage of that, but that's why I say, it is good that there are some systems at least being put in place. It's getting better, of course, with each year. So, looking forward to the improvement.
Y: So actually, right now, with all your experience accumulated like that, of course life has brought you to this point in time, so is there one piece of advice that you would give yourself back when you were starting out
Alex: Yes, that is to be, actually be daring, not to keep thinking, and be active. That's what it is, and don't really think about rejection so much. Again, I'm not sure about, it's my own personal opinion for myself, because I am an introvert by nature, but I have to force myself to go out of my shell to talk to people, to get things. This is the only way to get it done, and you have to voice out your expression, what you're thinking.
Y: If not, nobody’s going to say it for you.
Alex: Yes, of course, and then of course, I wish certain things, in terms of skills wise. If I’d have gone there perhaps earlier, it may have been better, I'm not sure. Some people did tell me, like from Berkeley and another school, when I went there at that point in time, it was actually the best time, because I have experience, so my understanding towards what they are teaching is different to people who have not experienced this whole industry all together.
Y: Okay, at least you know where to apply the skills right? You know what you're learning is actually useful.
Alex: Yes.
Jayce: So, I'm just curious, your classmates, are they mostly from Asia? Or are you just one of the few from Asia that's there to experience this whole learning experience?
Alex: I'm the second Asian, no third sorry. We have a few Asians. So, it's myself from Singapore, one Korean and then one Indian. So, it was pretty fun, and then the rest were of course from European countries, the US and Mexico, and where else? Yeah, Germany.
Y: It's quite international.
Alex: It's international, it is. It was a fun group, they were very fun, and we were all pushed in the sense with each other, because we were the third year, yes, the third batch for the school in film scoring, but we pushed each other, because our levels, we all came from different backgrounds and some have experience as well. So, it was really interesting to see something that we were doing together but it all sounded very different from our own culture and backgrounds and all of that.
I didn't really think of it, when I was there, like that. I was doing a piece, it just sounded Asian to me, no matter how I do it, and then they cannot do what I want, you know, like my music. So, I was surprised, I thought it was very easy, but you never think of this kind of thing until you are put in the situation, and then you are all doing the same thing, but it turns out different.
Jayce: So, the culture is still a very big part of this?
Alex: Yes.
Jayce: So, does it mean that you see in Asia, for music scoring, music composing part, it’s increasingly being a very big part of Asian film as well?
Alex: The thing is, film scoring is actually a Western art. So, it came from there, and the legacy is from there. Symphonic sound mostly, but, of course, we can make it uniquely ours by our own kind of music and the way we compose it.
But yes, it will be a huge part, and I think, right now, there is more exposure as well, and of course with technology and all this advancement, we can do a lot of unique things. Technology levelled the playing field of course, but we can add on, we can do interesting sounds. There are some instruments here that you can't get anywhere else in the world. I only realised that when I was like half way across the other side of the world.
Y: Like what?
Alex: Like even the angklung and a lot of kalimba.
Jayce: Those very Asian musical instruments
Y: True.
Alex: Yes, but it's the way we play it, you know? Sometimes we criticise, “The music sounds [unclear 00:51:23],” but to them, it doesn't sound like that, to them it sounds like, “It's nice, it's exotic.”
Y: Is it like, when you go and look for, you know sometimes in the past, when I was doing corporate videos, or Chinese New Year and everything, and then you go to Stop Music sites, that's the most common thing, and then you know that they are composed by non-Asians or non-Chinese, because that doesn't sound like a Chinese tune, even though they're using the same instruments maybe, but it comes out different.
Alex: Yes, it is, it is very strange. It is very strange.
Y: Because it was very different after that. I heard one composed by a Malaysian, and I like, “This is Chinese music.” Compared to the ones that we found usually in the past.
Jayce: Yeah but music is just like film, right? It's trying to articulate and trying to communicate a culture of a specific place or serve as a memory for many generations to come.
Alex: Yes.
Jayce: So, before we end off, just one last question, so what is the advice that you would give to a freelancer today?
Alex: Today?
Jayce: Yeah, of today, I mean what is that one piece of advice that you think is the most valuable to a freelancer who is going to start their freelance career today?
Y: Yeah because you gave one to your younger self just now.
Alex: Yes, okay. I think the most importantly is always be open, know what you're getting into and, of course, let rejection be something that spurs you forward, not be hurt by, and be brave and move forward all the time. I think most importantly is that we can't stop moving forward, we just have to keep on going. We have to keep on doing, and then we will get better at what we do now.
I think as someone who just wants to start to freelance, we think that if we do this we expect that kind of quality, but you won't get there immediately, it will take time, you need to learn. It would be better if you can learn from someone of course, but if you want to do it on your own, you can, but you must be realistic about things. And of course, plan. I think that is the most important. Plan.
Jayce: Great, that's good advice, do you have anything else?
Y: No, I think that's it, thank you so much again Alex for giving us your time to come over here despite your busy schedule, I know you have another meeting that you have to rush to after this.
Alex: Thank you.
Y: Thank you so much Alex for coming down and taking the time out for us today, it was very good hearing your experiences, especially from a veteran in the media industry.
Alex: Thank you.
Y: I think for both, other veterans and also the new freelancers coming out, and of course non-freelancers, the client side of it, I think is a very interesting aspect to hear, and also of your music background, because I don't think there are a lot of people in this particular niche in Singapore.
Alex: No.
Y: So, thank you so much for sharing your experiences with us.
Jayce: Thank you for the time, and to the rest of the audience, thank you for tuning into another episode of Freelance Exchange…
Thank you to our viewers for tuning in for another episode of Freelance Exchange. Subscribe to our YouTube and leave a comment because we want to hear from you.
Y: Or subscribe to us on YouTube and leave a review. So, follow us on CreativesAtWork on Facebook and Instagram, and join us next time for another brand-new episode of Freelance Exchange. Until then, bye.
Jayce: Bye. See you.